What Do Wesleyans Do Well?
At the recent Wesleyan Doctrinal Symposium one of the presenters, Dr. Ken Schenck, asked this thought provoking question: "What do Wesleyans do well?"
Justin Neirer, in response, posted a few things Wesleyans DON'T do well:
He noted that we Wesleyans. . .
1. Don't Communicate Well
2. Don't Evangelize Well
3. Don't Multiply Well
4. Don't Define Well
5. Don't Do Accountability Well
I appreciate Justin's candor, and stand challenged to do my part in improving the situation. However, Justin didn't get around to answering the big question.
In fact, at the end of his post, he asked it again: What do Wesleyans DO well?
From the vantage point of a lifelong Wesleyan, I'd like to take a shot at answering that question.
1. Wesleyans do Stewardship Well.
The Wesleyan Church always ranks in the top three or four denominations in per capita giving each year.
2. Wesleyans do College Well.
Our colleges foster a climate of spiritual commitment. I have visited four of our five campuses, and have found each one to be in the "spiritual formation" business. With one son at Bethany, and another on his way to Indiana Wesleyan, I feel secure, knowing that they will receive strong academic training from professors who are devoted followers of Jesus.
3. Wesleyans do Latin America Well.
La Iglesia Wesleyana in Central and South America is thriving and growing at an unprecedented rate. New countries are opening every year, and many new churches are being planted.
4. Wesleyans do Children's Homes Well.
Actually, I should say Children's Home -- because I am speaking of Hephzibah in Macon, Georgia. Due to the kind generosity of countless Wesleyans, we have established a world class caring place for children without parents.
5. Wesleyans do Non-Traditional Ministerial Education Well.
There is not another church anywhere that provides our kind of ministerial training for those who are called later in life. FLAME, under the direction of Wayne Richards, has made ordination possible for many. These "second half" ministers are passionately devoted to Jesus, and ready to go forth and conquor the world!
6. Wesleyans do Youth Conventions Well.
There is nothing like an International Wesleyan Youth Convention, where thousands of our kids rally together, are challenged to a deeper walk, and are called into the ministry.
7. Wesleyans do "The In-Between" Well.
We're not stodgy like the mainliners and we're not hyper like the pentecostals -- we're at a good place in between the two extremes.
8. Wesleyans do "Safe Haven" Well.
I recall several years ago, when the Fuller Institute did a study of various denominations. It tagged the Wesleyans the "Safe Haven". They said the Wesleyan Church is a good place to find healing, love and strength when going through the painful struggles of life. I cannot speak for every Wesleyan congregation, but I have found that to be true in Hayward.
9. Wesleyans do "Autonomy" Well.
As a pastor, I have tremendous freedom to do ministry my own way. There is no "ecclesiastical gestapo" looking over my shoulder. This freedom allows me to effectively serve my community without having to jump through a bunch of hoops. The autonomy applies to freedom of belief and practice in such areas as baptism, worship style, programming, preaching, military service, and eschatology.
10. Wesleyans do Mix Well.
Over the years, I have gained many dear friends throughout the Wesleyan Church. I know most of the leaders fairly well, and find them to be good hearted men and women of God, full of faith and devoted to prayer. Whenever I attend a Wesleyan gathering, it is like a family reunion for me -- and I'm proud of my family. Wesleyans mix well with folks from other traditions, too. We are not obliged to draw from a small pool of only "Wesleyan approved" resources. Instead, I am free to fish in a wide variety of holes: John Piper, N. T. Wright, Saddleback, Willow Creek, the Charismatics. They have all enriched my ministry. (Of course, when eating fish, you have to be careful not to swallow the bones.)
11. Wesleyans do Max-well.
I think it's pretty cool that the greatest leadership guru in the whole world is an ordained Wesleyan pastor, and it is a joy to count him as my friend. (I understand that there are Wesleyans who DON'T do Maxwell. For a few years, it seemed like we didn't do Maxwell very well. He was so much bigger than our little denomination, we didn't know what to do with him. Nevertheless, he has become the most influential Wesleyan in history. He has inspired millions to be better leaders -- and God knows we need better leadership everywhere. It was good to see the church do well by honoring Maxwell last January -- and for one evening, we even got his good friend, Bill Hybels, to boot!)
Justin Neirer, in response, posted a few things Wesleyans DON'T do well:
He noted that we Wesleyans. . .
1. Don't Communicate Well
2. Don't Evangelize Well
3. Don't Multiply Well
4. Don't Define Well
5. Don't Do Accountability Well
I appreciate Justin's candor, and stand challenged to do my part in improving the situation. However, Justin didn't get around to answering the big question.
In fact, at the end of his post, he asked it again: What do Wesleyans DO well?
From the vantage point of a lifelong Wesleyan, I'd like to take a shot at answering that question.
1. Wesleyans do Stewardship Well.
The Wesleyan Church always ranks in the top three or four denominations in per capita giving each year.
2. Wesleyans do College Well.
Our colleges foster a climate of spiritual commitment. I have visited four of our five campuses, and have found each one to be in the "spiritual formation" business. With one son at Bethany, and another on his way to Indiana Wesleyan, I feel secure, knowing that they will receive strong academic training from professors who are devoted followers of Jesus.
3. Wesleyans do Latin America Well.
La Iglesia Wesleyana in Central and South America is thriving and growing at an unprecedented rate. New countries are opening every year, and many new churches are being planted.
4. Wesleyans do Children's Homes Well.
Actually, I should say Children's Home -- because I am speaking of Hephzibah in Macon, Georgia. Due to the kind generosity of countless Wesleyans, we have established a world class caring place for children without parents.
5. Wesleyans do Non-Traditional Ministerial Education Well.
There is not another church anywhere that provides our kind of ministerial training for those who are called later in life. FLAME, under the direction of Wayne Richards, has made ordination possible for many. These "second half" ministers are passionately devoted to Jesus, and ready to go forth and conquor the world!
6. Wesleyans do Youth Conventions Well.
There is nothing like an International Wesleyan Youth Convention, where thousands of our kids rally together, are challenged to a deeper walk, and are called into the ministry.
7. Wesleyans do "The In-Between" Well.
We're not stodgy like the mainliners and we're not hyper like the pentecostals -- we're at a good place in between the two extremes.
8. Wesleyans do "Safe Haven" Well.
I recall several years ago, when the Fuller Institute did a study of various denominations. It tagged the Wesleyans the "Safe Haven". They said the Wesleyan Church is a good place to find healing, love and strength when going through the painful struggles of life. I cannot speak for every Wesleyan congregation, but I have found that to be true in Hayward.
9. Wesleyans do "Autonomy" Well.
As a pastor, I have tremendous freedom to do ministry my own way. There is no "ecclesiastical gestapo" looking over my shoulder. This freedom allows me to effectively serve my community without having to jump through a bunch of hoops. The autonomy applies to freedom of belief and practice in such areas as baptism, worship style, programming, preaching, military service, and eschatology.
10. Wesleyans do Mix Well.
Over the years, I have gained many dear friends throughout the Wesleyan Church. I know most of the leaders fairly well, and find them to be good hearted men and women of God, full of faith and devoted to prayer. Whenever I attend a Wesleyan gathering, it is like a family reunion for me -- and I'm proud of my family. Wesleyans mix well with folks from other traditions, too. We are not obliged to draw from a small pool of only "Wesleyan approved" resources. Instead, I am free to fish in a wide variety of holes: John Piper, N. T. Wright, Saddleback, Willow Creek, the Charismatics. They have all enriched my ministry. (Of course, when eating fish, you have to be careful not to swallow the bones.)
11. Wesleyans do Max-well.
I think it's pretty cool that the greatest leadership guru in the whole world is an ordained Wesleyan pastor, and it is a joy to count him as my friend. (I understand that there are Wesleyans who DON'T do Maxwell. For a few years, it seemed like we didn't do Maxwell very well. He was so much bigger than our little denomination, we didn't know what to do with him. Nevertheless, he has become the most influential Wesleyan in history. He has inspired millions to be better leaders -- and God knows we need better leadership everywhere. It was good to see the church do well by honoring Maxwell last January -- and for one evening, we even got his good friend, Bill Hybels, to boot!)
While I am proud of my "at least" third generation Wesleyan heritage, and the "what we do NOT do" list made my toes curl (and I defensively wanted to take issue with SEVERAL items on that list) and while your "what we DO well" list made me very pleased - - - I think a bigger question than this is what do those of us who bear the name of Christ DO.
ReplyDeleteAs I've reconnected with some old high school friends (and since I'm getting pretty ancient, I'm NOT using the term Old loosely here) I have been saddened in my heart to hear of their perception of US. True - - - Satan points out to them and distorts our flaws. BUT - - - - when we don't love our neighbor as ourself, the world SEES and NOTES that and we might as well keep our mouths shut because our actions are screaming so loud no one can hear our words.
The Lord has challenged me to let my LOVE so shine before men (and women) that He will be seen and glorified.
Thanks Mark for the "good list."
ReplyDeleteThere are a couple on your list that are very dear to my heart.
The FLAME program has totally changed my spiritual life, by giving me access to some of the best teachers/professors in all of The Wesleyan Church. I thank God for the ministry idea put into the mind of Wayne that has given people like me (married in my 40's/4 kids) an opportunity to continue my ministry path. I could write paragraphs about how wonderful FLAME is - but I'll move on.
Wesleyan Youth Conventions. This winter will be my 5th Wesleyan Youth Convention as a Youth Pastor. I have always been impressed by most every aspect of these events. The Wesleyan Youth leadership is terrific!
Jerry Johnson
NC
well put!
ReplyDeletemany wesleyans don't mix well with maxwell
ReplyDeletemmMark, I love your list. I began commenting and then realized my commenting was almost as long as your post. I'm planning on expanding some of your thoughts over on my blog. Good thoughts and thanks for staying on channel P!
ReplyDeleteMark
ReplyDeleteIf I had read this during the first two years that I went to the local Wesleyan Church I would agree with you however since the blogs name is 'Revitalize your Church' and not 'Make Wesleyans Feel Good' I must say what Wesleyans need to hear not what Wesleyans want to hear.
I am glad that You,Keetha,Jerry,Keith,Dale have had a good Wesleyan experiance mine however was not that way.
During my first two years at the Wesleyan church, They seemed very friendly especialy when we donated food and money to every cause that came up. I was told how glad they were to see me each Sunday when my 20% went into the offering, and what a great guy I was with the donations to the pastor appriation,Church building fund,flower fund, and how great a cook my wife was with food donations for the sick,funerals, and VBS. The requests for money and food were frequent and it seemed the more we donated the more they asked. We were glad to be able to help.
My Wesleyan problems started when my wife got sick. After 6 weeks in the hospital and she did not get one single card, not a visit, not even a phone call from anyone in the Church. When she got out of the hospital and we were able to attend again, I had the nerve to to tell a bord member that I was disaponted and I wanted to know where all the money was going since they never used it for the purpose that it was intended.
I was told it was none of my business and my so called glad to see me friends were not so glad to see me anymore. When my wife got sick again and we were not able to attend, the same thing happened again. No phone call, no cards, not a visit from anyone in the Church not even the pastor. When she died and my pastor never showed up, my brother asked a preacher he knew to do the service.
Not a single person from the Wesleyan church attended the service,no flowers,no food for my family. It seemed that the good we did for others was not returned when we needed it most.
I am sorry if this sounds bitter but I do not know of any other way to say it.
Walt, thank you for sharing your heart so openly. As both a former pastor and current official in the Wesleyan Church I grieve as I read what has happened to you. Obviously I wasn't there and I don't know all the circumstances but I do read in your comments the severe pain. loneliness, hurt and loss that you feel. Please know Walt that this is not the basis that the Wesleyan Church is built on. Unfortunately you were denied the love, concern, and care that is a bedrock of our faith and values as Wesleyans. On behalf of the Wesleyan Church I apologize to you for this lack of compassion that was shown to you. It is my prayer that God will guide you in your walk to a place where you can find healing, peace and renewed faith. Wayne
ReplyDeleteWalt,
ReplyDeleteAlong with Wayne, I would like to say that I am so sorry this terrible thing happened to you within the Wesleyan Church. It's not the way things are supposed to be. Love is our highest calling.
To me the biggest problem with all denominations is they forget the small churches. As long as you have big numbers the denomination wants to be your friend but if you drop below 100 the denomination starts to turn its back on you and if you drop below 50 you might as well become independent because your church will be treated as if it is not a member.
ReplyDeleteAs a Wesleyan it hurts me to hear of Walt’s experience.
ReplyDeleteI think Walt’s desire is for us to take a closer look at ourselves as a Church and make sure we are not doing to others what was done to him. In a big Church it is easy to overlook someone in need. In a small Church people tend to form circles. The care and concerns of the few do not reach outside their circle. Yes people in every Church big or small have problems and need.
I am sorry for the cards that were not sent, the calls that were not made and for the SORRY Church that was not there in a time of need. As a Church this is the very opportunity we look for to serve HIM. Hopefully there was some reason why the pastor was unable to be there for Walt and in that case he should have let you know.
I would be curious to have a Service of Missed Opportunities.
'Recognize the hurt we caused’
If in a special service people were asked with all eyes closed if they had been hurt or had family hurt by the Church how many would respond?
'Say we are sorry'
People cannot release their anger until they hear this.
These people should be asked for forgiveness by the Church.
Make it genuine not (If I have done something).
'Make restitution'
If there is something you can do to correct the problem then do it.
What can I do to heal this hurt and pain caused by us?
Pray for our healing and their healing.
Ask the Lord for his help in healing the relationship.
Trust takes a long time to make and a short time to break.
I am so sorry Walt and please know that not all Wesleyans are that way.
Good list Pastor Mark. Sorry to hear about Walt's situation, but I think that is the exception not the rule. I'm sure numerous situations exist, like that, where 'love' is the issue. That being said, I've seen scenarios where it was a communication failure as well (the pastor/church simply didn't know about the problem) and that was 'interpreted' as a lack of love. I'm hoping the latter is more often the case and not the former, like in Walt's case.
ReplyDeletePlease believe me when I say this. I love the Wesleyan Church Denomination. It is out of that love that I ask the questions that I ask.
ReplyDeleteI did not post in order to make people angry AT ME. I posted in order than conversations and healthy debate can happen. I am honored that Pastor Mark would answer my question in such an incredibly thought-filled way. I apologize if I offended anyone personally. That wasnt my intention at all.
Yes, Keetha, my toes are curled also. Not from what Justin pointed out, but from what I too have observed in our churches today. Although I did not defend Walt personally, I spoke out/came to the defense of other 'Walters' when injustices were committed. The retaliation by those in control was swift and severe. But, I refuse to give up. We not only owe the 'Walts' apologies and restitutions, we must guard that these situations do not repeat themselves. If we would all treat others the way we would want to be treated, these problems would not exist.
ReplyDeleteJustin,
ReplyDeleteHealthy debates are not only wanted, they are necessary. I am honored that you are strong enough to speak the truth and show your great love for the Wesleyan Church. If someone was offended, you probably stepped on their toes.
The Wesleyan Church is like a bushel of apples. If there is a rotten one (local church, pastor, deacon, board member, Sunday School Teacher, district supervisor, any leader or member), it must not be hid on the bottom of the basket. A rotten apple hid at the bottom soon makes the entire bushel smell bad.
Please continue to be forthright and honest Justin. We cannot change what we do not acknowledge. I appreciate you.
To Anonymous
ReplyDeleteRegarding "biggest problem with all denominations is they forget the small churches."
There is a reason why Churches decline.
When any Church starts to lose people they need to ask themselves,
"Are we creating situations that are forcing the Walts to leave"?
The district needs to ask themselves, "What can we do to get this small Church back on track"?
JustinJNierer
ReplyDeleteIt may have been better to ask what Wesleyans can improve or do better. Like it or not it comes off as you are saying all Wesleyans are bad. Do you think anyone reading that post would even consider going to a Wesleyan Church? Or even going to Church at all because you know they are all the same. This site should not be titled "Revitalize your Church" it should be "Tear down and critize everything your Church does".
What I take most offense to is that what started this was a blog about Dads and it turned into lets bash the Church some more.
It is funny that everyone is open for debate as long as we are Church bashing but Heaven forbid anyone tries to stick up for the Wesleyan Church.
Wow! Mark, you've really started a conversation here.
ReplyDeleteI along with Wayne, Mark, Keetha, and a Wesleyan am truly sorry to hear of Walt's experience with a Wesleyan Church. It breaks my heart to know that there are Wesleyan churches out there like the one Walt attended. I thought a Wesleyan's idea of a reconciliation service seemed like a great idea, especially if combined with communion or a love feast. There are hurting people in our congregations and they need our love.
Justin, thanks for joining the conversation. I wasn't offended by anything you said. I feel honored as well when Mark points people my way. Linda made a great point; a healthy conversation is needed and welcomed. I see your and Mark's posts as part of the conversation that needs to happen. Are there things that we need to work on as a church? Absolutely. And how do we work on them unless we are made aware. Mark has had thought provoking posts in the past. I think the last time there were this many comments is when he posted on worship. Thanks for part of the conversation
The last anonymous -- If you have followed Revitalize Your Church for any time, you will know that Mark is all about encouraging small, rural church pastors and there are many of us and He does that very well, probably better than any other blogger I know. This was a post about what The Wesleyan Church is doing right, not about fathers -- that was the previous post. This post was not hi-jacked in any way. I didn't see any Wesleyan Church bashing here.
I believe that we need to work together to build the Kingdom as God has called us to do -- loving God with all our our heart, mind, soul, and strength and loving our neighbor as ourself. Some of us build the Kingdom in small, rural churches, some in large, rural churches, some in large, urban churches, and some in small, urban churches and everything in-between, but we are all building Christ's Kingdom. Let's keep doing it.
I have followed this Blog for quite a while. This conversation began on the blog titled "The Four Stages of Fatherhood" and thats is what aggrevates me. Pastor Wilson is trying to be positive and it just gets turned around to something else wrong with Christians. How about commenting about the actual Four Stages of Fatherhood.
ReplyDeleteI think Pastor Wilson does a great job of being Positive and it was not him to who I was refering to when I metioned the name change for the blog.
I know you, Dale Argot, have been reading Pastor Wilson's post because I see your comments quite often and I appreciate you being uplifting and positive. You have to admit that a lot of the comments posted to Pastor Wilson's blogs are negative towards the Church.
He can start a blog that says "It's a beautiful day" and the first comment will be "not at my church"
Come on enough already.
Okay, everyone just breathe.
ReplyDeleteJust so everyone knows, I have deleted my blog and raised the white flag on my blogging career, at least for now.
I am going to be ordained soon and have already gotten a few negative e-mails and such from people. One person even stated that had I been in their district, they would have asked for my credentials..yeah, ouch. I love the open discussions we are having and I think it is healthy to look at the good and the bad together, as a team and as a Wesleyan family.
If any of you want to send me links to your blogs, feel free. I cant promise I will read all of them all of the time, but I will still comment if appropriate.
I guess anyone reading this blog might assume that one thing Wesleyans do well is blog. That would be judging all Wesleyans on what a very few Wesleyans do. I appreciate the fact that Mark allows those that are not comfortable signing their names to respond anonymously which enables very honest opinions/hurts to surface.
ReplyDeleteI have been touched by the concerns, apologies and deep caring shown Walt on this site. It has given me some new hope for the Wesleyan Church.
Yes, Keetha our actions are speaking so loudly the world does not listen to a word we are saying.
Last night I read in the Columbus Dispatch that a survey revealed that 63% of Americans were on the receiving end of at least one selfless act of kindness during the past year. I am challenging ALL Wesleyans/Christians to be on the giving end of at least one selfless act of kindness each day during the next year so your church will not become Walt's church.
WOW!
ReplyDeleteWhile I was posting a comment about feeling better about the future of the Wesleyan Church, Justin was raising a white flag.
We do need conversations about the good and the bad. Those who are not part of the solution are part of the problem. We cannot correct what we are afraid to acknowledge.
Justin I understand your white flag. Your future as a Wesleyan pastor matters very much to you. Please do not let this experience dampen your enthusiasm.
Gang.
ReplyDeleteI did not mean to start a war between the loving and not so loving Wesleyans.
The anger displayed by anonymous was exactly what I got when I asked a simple question about money. It looks like Justin made the same mistake.
If anonymous gets this hot about a blog story, What does he do with real problems in his Church?
Thank everyone for the kind words. The problem is these words needed to come from my Church.
I hope they see this blog and God leads them to change.
Revitalize means seeing your flaws and changing for the better.
Sorry I caused you all so much greef.
Walt
Long time reader, firt time poster. What was just done to Justin by not so loving Wesleyans makes me want to go out and 'kick' a Wesleyan.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
When someone says it is not a beautiful day at his/her church, that is an opportunity for revitalization.
As an "at least fourth" generation Wesleyan, I'm willing to admit that there are things the Wesleyans do well and things we don't do well. Hey, if you can't love your famiy, warts and all....
ReplyDeleteBut, what I'd like to share now is an experience that is almost the complete opposite of Walt's.
In January of this year, my parents were in an auto accident that killed my dad and critically injured my mom. She was life-flighted to a major hospital an hour and a half from her home and four hours from mine.
A small Wesleyan church in the area heard about our situation and arranged for me to stay with a church member who lived less that half an hour from the hospital. They also arranged rides for me to and from the hospital every day for weeks (because of my health issues.
Meanwhile, Mom's Wesleyan church was flooding her with cards, letters, and visits. At the same time, my Wesleyan church back home was helping my family, who were trying to go back to "normal" life without me.
Now that Mom is back home recuperating (Praise God, no long-term disabilities!), her church is doing what they longed to do while she was away from them in the hospital--love on her! They visit her regularly, give her rides anywhere, bring her food. I've had no qualms about leaving her in their care.
While I agree, at least to an degree, with Justin and some of the other posters, right now my heart is still so full of gratitude for the "Safe Haven" that Wesleyan churches have been for my family--it's my time to brag on the Wesleyan church!
Ralph, if you do decide to go out and kick a wesleyan -- let me know, and I'll provide you a list.
ReplyDeleteMarcia, what a wonderful thing to hear. Thanks for sharing.
Everybody, this has been interesting.