More than 30% of Americans have abused alcohol or suffered from alcoholism -- and few have received treatment. This is one of the biggest social ills in our land -- yet nobody seems willing to address it. Why?
An Addictive Personality that arises from an underlying problem(s) is of major concern in today's world. This addiction can be with alcohol, eating, drugs(illegal as well as prescription), pornography, sex, lying, desire for control, spending, gossiping, laziness or whatever. All these social ills are costing billions of dollars. Millions of innocent people are suffering due to others' additions. There is something missing in the individual's life that makes the person crave something that is detrimental to him/her. No problem can be solved until what is causing the problem is addressed. It is like a sore that will not heal. Although the surface can appear to be better, the sore will not heal until the thorn lying deep beneath the surface is removed.
I worked for Anheuser Busch Inc. for 29 years. Anheuser takes alcohol abuse very seriously.
http://www.beeresponsible.com/home.html
During these 29 years and even today, I have been condemned by my local Wesleyan Church. I have co-workers who are pastors, deacons, and even some who are Sunday School teachers in another Wesleysn Church. They are well thought of by their Church, which is in the same district as mine.
I have seen more of a Christian attitude shown towards myself and others by my co-workers and management than I have ever seen from my own Church.
The bigger question should be, "Why are we as a nation and a Church so willing to let people suffer with their problems to the point where they drink to try to forget their problems for just a little while?" When you sober up a drunk, you still have a person with the same problems.
If we as a Church are doing our job, then why are so many people turning to booze instead of the Church?
Sounds like your buddies and co-workers are in a good supportive Church. I think I would be going to their Church or a Church like theirs.
If in 29 years you haven't changed the minds and souls of the people in your Church I very much doubt your are going to. I think you have to ask yourself do you really want another 29 years to go by.
I just don't buy that Anheuser takes drinking responsibly serious. They are out to make money and that means they have to sell their product. I don't believe the lottery wants you to gamble responsibly. I don't believe Las Vegas wants you to gamble responsibly. They want your money!!!! I don't think the drug companies want you to be well. They want your money!!! I don't think the cigarette company cares one bit about your health. They just want your money!!!!
How easy it would be to just go to another church. If I were the only one being hurt, it would be easy to leave. I have a deep faith that is not determinded by how well I am accepted by any Church.
If I left, it would be a tempoary solution to a permanent problem.
I feel that when others are being hurt that are not as strong as I am, it is my and any "True Christian's" duty to try to do something about it.
My goal is to make it so others are not hurt.
How great it would be if these so called Christians would actually fess up and repent for their unchristian attitudes and make pentance for what they have done.
It still does not answer the question how one Wesleyan church can be loving and accepting and another Wesleyan church be so unloving, willing to shun anyone they deem not as worthy as them.
When churches take several collections in one day, up to 3 or four in one service, do they care about the souls of the ones attending, or do they just Want Your Money?
If you think you are going to be able to keep fellow Christians from being hurt, I am afraid you are set up to fail. Christitans are going to be hurt by the world and unfortunatly by other Christians. The whole world should not rest on your back.
If I was in an unhealthy marriage I would get out. I would not let my spouse abuse me for 29 years and think it was going to get better. I definitely would not stay there and try to protect my kids or other family members. I would leave and take them with me, that is the only true way of protecting them. There is physical, mental and even spiritual abuse. Staying in an unhealthy Church does no one any good. I think satan loves us to be in unhealthy Churches so we are less likely to be doing Gods work.
I know there are no perfect Churchs. However I do know there are some that are alot healthier than others. Sam mentioned two very different Churchs. Both of them Wesleyan and both very different. He asked why. I don't know, but I do know that one seems to be healthier than the other. If I had to visit one I would prefer to visit the healthier one. Of course I like to avoid conflict, some people seem to thrive on it.
I think the real question is: Should Churchs be allowed to take a stand against beer/alcohol?
It seems like if a Church takes a stand on anything than we are a bunch of hate mongers.
I know we should love the sinners and hate the sin, but you are not even allowed to tell someone that homosexuality is a sin. If you do then you are just being hateful.
I don't drink alcohol but I don't think it is a sin. I do think being an alcoholic is a sin. God tells us to stay away from alcohol not as a punishment towards us he just knows how easy of a temptation it is to become an alcoholic. He wants what is best for his children. If you knew there was a 30 percent chance of your child being killed in a car wreck tonight I would hope you would try to keep them from driving.
I do not believe that BEING an alcoholic is a sin. I know that abuse of alcohol is a sin.. A recovering alcoholic is still an alcoholic..but if since alcoholic is working their program and depending on God for help in dealing with the alcoholism.. you have a wonderful delightful person.. a CHAMPION...who happens to be a recovering ALCOHOLIC
If this is not a place where tears are understood, Then where shall I go to cry? And if this is not a place where my spirit can take wings, Then where shall I go to fly? I don't need another place for trying to impress you With just how good and virtuous I am. I don't need another place for always being on top of things; Everybody knows that it's a sham. I don't need another place for always wearing smiles, Even when it's not the way I feel. I don't need another place to mouth the same old platitudes; Everybody knows that it's not real. So if this is not a place where my questions can be asked, Then where shall I go to seek? And if this is not a place where my heart cry can be heard, Where, tell me where, shall I go to speak? So if this is not a place where tears are understood, Where shall I go, where shall I go to fly? -- Ken Medema
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An Addictive Personality that arises from an underlying
ReplyDeleteproblem(s) is of major concern in today's world. This addiction can be with alcohol, eating, drugs(illegal as well as prescription), pornography, sex, lying, desire for control, spending, gossiping, laziness or whatever. All these social ills are costing billions of dollars. Millions of innocent people are suffering due to others' additions. There is something missing in the individual's life that makes the person crave something that is detrimental to him/her. No problem can be solved until what is causing the problem is addressed. It is like a sore that will not heal. Although the surface can appear to be better, the sore will not heal until the thorn lying deep beneath the surface is removed.
I have never heard a sermon on gluttony but I have been to hundreds of pot-lucks.
ReplyDeleteI worked for Anheuser Busch Inc. for 29 years. Anheuser takes
ReplyDeletealcohol abuse very seriously.
http://www.beeresponsible.com/home.html
During these 29 years and even today, I have been condemned by my local Wesleyan Church. I have co-workers who are pastors, deacons, and even some who are Sunday School teachers in another Wesleysn Church. They are well thought of by their Church, which is in the same district as mine.
I have seen more of a Christian attitude shown towards myself and others by my co-workers and management than I have ever seen from my own Church.
The bigger question should be,
"Why are we as a nation and a Church so willing to let people suffer with their problems to the point where they drink to try to forget their problems for just a little while?" When you sober up a drunk, you still have a person with the same problems.
If we as a Church are doing our job, then why are so many people turning to booze instead of the Church?
Money is not the root of all evil. The LOVE of money is! The same is true for all the other social ills mentioned in this post.
ReplyDeleteSam,
ReplyDeleteSounds like your buddies and co-workers are in a good supportive Church. I think I would be going to their Church or a Church like theirs.
If in 29 years you haven't changed the minds and souls of the people in your Church I very much doubt your are going to. I think you have to ask yourself do you really want another 29 years to go by.
I just don't buy that Anheuser takes drinking responsibly serious. They are out to make money and that means they have to sell their product. I don't believe the lottery wants you to gamble responsibly. I don't believe Las Vegas wants you to gamble responsibly. They want your money!!!! I don't think the drug companies want you to be well. They want your money!!! I don't think the cigarette company cares one bit about your health. They just want your money!!!!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous
ReplyDeleteHow easy it would be to just go to another church. If I were the only one being hurt, it would be easy to leave. I have a deep faith that is not determinded by how well I am accepted by any Church.
If I left, it would be a tempoary solution to a permanent problem.
I feel that when others are being hurt that are not as strong as I am, it is my and any "True Christian's" duty to try to do something about it.
My goal is to make it so others are not hurt.
How great it would be if these so called Christians would actually fess up and repent for their unchristian attitudes and make pentance for what they have done.
It still does not answer the question how one Wesleyan church can be loving and accepting and another Wesleyan church be so unloving, willing to shun anyone they deem not as worthy as them.
When churches take several collections in one day, up to 3 or four in one service, do they care about the souls of the ones attending, or do they just Want Your Money?
ReplyDeleteThe instant any business or organization takes one cent of the public's money, total accountability is not a choice, it is a necessity!
ReplyDeleteNo one should expect a Wesleyan blog site to be in favor of the product Anheuser Busch produces.
ReplyDeleteHowever, if churches could follow the business practices of such a successful company, could the churches save as many souls as beers are sold?
I think it should be God that tells Sam when it is time for him to find another church.
ReplyDeleteSam,
ReplyDeleteIf you think you are going to be able to keep fellow Christians from being hurt, I am afraid you are set up to fail. Christitans are going to be hurt by the world and unfortunatly by other Christians. The whole world should not rest on your back.
If I was in an unhealthy marriage I would get out. I would not let my spouse abuse me for 29 years and think it was going to get better. I definitely would not stay there and try to protect my kids or other family members. I would leave and take them with me, that is the only true way of protecting them. There is physical, mental and even spiritual abuse. Staying in an unhealthy Church does no one any good. I think satan loves us to be in unhealthy Churches so we are less likely to be doing Gods work.
ReplyDeleteI know there are no perfect Churchs. However I do know there are some that are alot healthier than others. Sam mentioned two very different Churchs. Both of them Wesleyan and both very different. He asked why. I don't know, but I do know that one seems to be healthier than the other. If I had to visit one I would prefer to visit the healthier one. Of course I like to avoid conflict, some people seem to thrive on it.
I think the real question is: Should Churchs be allowed to take a stand against beer/alcohol?
ReplyDeleteIt seems like if a Church takes a stand on anything than we are a bunch of hate mongers.
I know we should love the sinners and hate the sin, but you are not even allowed to tell someone that homosexuality is a sin. If you do then you are just being hateful.
I don't drink alcohol but I don't think it is a sin. I do think being an alcoholic is a sin. God tells us to stay away from alcohol not as a punishment towards us he just knows how easy of a temptation it is to become an alcoholic. He wants what is best for his children. If you knew there was a 30 percent chance of your child being killed in a car wreck tonight I would hope you would try to keep them from driving.
Sam
ReplyDeleteI feal you pain and I love you.
Walt and others,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your concern.
I do not believe that BEING an alcoholic is a sin. I know that abuse of alcohol is a sin..
ReplyDeleteA recovering alcoholic is still an alcoholic..but if since alcoholic is working their program and depending on God for help in dealing with the alcoholism.. you have a wonderful delightful person.. a CHAMPION...who happens to be a recovering ALCOHOLIC
You are so right Evy. It is the ABUSE of alcohol or anything else including religion that is the sin.
ReplyDelete